I would love to see an et al column about commentators, radio and TV, Oz and overseas. We all have our favourites and those we love to hate. A column about cricket writers might be a bridge too far, given you and Pete know many of them personally.
You are describing my least favourite TV commentator: James Brayshaw. He’s completely incurious about everything. Kills me that they always pair him with Ponting.
I like Ponting as you learn a lot when he’s on. Though must admit I didn’t listen to him this year as Kayo/Fox better with no ads and better overall team I think.
Brayshaw was one of those in my mind when posting. Embarrassing. One of the main reasons I watch Fox. Can just imagine him salivating over the size of Mitch Marsh as if he’s playing footy. “Oh the Bison, he’s a huge human” etc.
Yeah, i reckon Ponting is the best on any channel. Brayshaw is equal worst alongside Dirk Nannes on radio. If either of them was a woman people would complain that they only got the job because they were 1) a dyke, 2) a ball-breaking bitch, or 3) slept their way there. Seems that being a good bloke will take you far….
Perfect, you have just named my two least favourite commentators. Brayshaw the bull-horn and Ponting the never-shuts-up. Thank God for the mute when these two are on.
I can't say I made it through any of them. Just too overdone.
Used to be pre-game and lunch break were worthwhile. Howie has made the lunch break segment unwatchable. Too busy trying to find something to embarrass someone or getting cricketing greats to tell us what they think is overrated. Reminds me of the Footy show.
Don't know Matt Nable but it sounds like his knowledge of the player pool doesn't extend beyond the time he became aware of cricket. No disrespect to Starc.
Alan Davidson …I remember him. (My father inflicted cricket on us from a very young age… watching Sheffield Shield on B & W TV is not a child’s idea of fun ) . However, I digress, AD was a great all rounder.
Agree with you about the Melbourne bias. Collins and Lemon particularly egregious last night on their pod but Whateley et al ever guilty. It’s not only tirese but they bore us to death
Oh that was so bad. I wanted to indulge in heaps of pods last night at the end of an enthralling series but had to turn them off.
Not only was it awash with pro Melbourne/anti Sydney nonsense, I think they’re too busy trying to be cool and funny moreso than talking cricket. That’s why I like Pete and Gideon. Humour is a by-product of the cricket chat.
Pete and Gideon are the best. Not only the cricket chat but the various ‘off piste’ meanderings through India and England have been not only entertaining and witty but I also appreciate the literary & musical references. Top of the class imo
TFW Pod is currently sponsored by Visit Victoria, so that pro Melb/anti Syd section was a light hearted riff on that tune. I don't have an allegiance to either city and found it amusing.
I basically like Geoff and Adam (and Bharat). Yes I could do without the AFL references and sometimes Adam talks (and swears!) too much. Once a political staffer, always a political staffer I suppose. Overall, the various cricket podcasts I listen to have added to my enjoyment of the game, and provided more of that ole diversity. I'm glad to fund them in my small way.
In general I like them too and have listened all series. Adam talks too fast . It’s like he’s on speed or permanantly on fast forward but last night’s diatribe was OTT
I’m not a fan of putting quotas on anything, including things like the South African cricket team or, say, the idea that 50% of CEOs should be women.
It’s much better to ensure everyone has the same opportunities. Usually that means grassroots campaigns.
In business, it means giving people opportunities at lower management levels/training etc and if they rise to CEO then that’s great.
If the grassroots of cricket is already diverse then the only issue is ensuring people selecting rep teams are picking the best players. We all know that doesn’t happen in any sport but mainly through nepotism rather than racism or any other prejudice.
Sorta ducks the class question, doesn't it? Class has always been a huge barrier to participating and thriving in cricket in this and every other cricket-playing country.
Odd little oversight, really. Is there a game more synonymous with the establishment than cricket?
That's a good point, and I think the preoccupation with ethnicity has precluded a necessary conversation about class. But, then, I think that applies in Australia more generally. Class barriers are much higher than we pretend.
As a (proud?) class-reductionist millennial living in the United States (with brown skin might I add)- I have seen the mayhem that myopic identity politics of the last two decades has left behind in its wake in this country. Australia and UK have had this annoying habit of aping the US in the way they see themselves. I have come to believe that most western democracies need more conversations (and action) focused on class.
I really enjoyed your analysis. Focusing on diversity through the narrow lens of race or ethnicity has limited shelf-life when it comes to building a broader coalition of egalitarian solidarity and empathy. This narrow definition of identity politics may bring folks from all walks of life together, but it often devolves into a wild hammer looking for nails. I do think the Australian team can do better in having more south asian representation at the highest levels, but I see that happening in the coming decade or two. It is just a matter of the current generation of desi parents encouraging their kids to take up the sport as a career.
That came out a bit snarkier than need be, sorry. Class is definitely a factor in Australian life that few like to bring up.
Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the memories. This is one the best test series I can recall, since the days of Clive and Viv. A lot of that is down to this podcast, full of insight, lore and laughs. 👍
Indeed. I now see young (10-14) cricketers not just changing clubs and leagues to improve their standards but getting extra-curricula coaching which costs a motza.
This article reinforced my belief that there are two competing forces that motivate people aspiring for some ideal. The growers and the builders. A builder says it should look like this, so put steps in place it make it look like that. A grower provides conditions for those attributes they want to emerge. I feel this side has been grown. It’s ok to sit back and look at this “garden” of a side and notice things that stand out. The difference in make-up of ethnicities between the test side and a 4th grade metro city game is worth noting. But let’s hold that thought lightly. Let’s not veer to building a test side in response to an univestigated impulse at the back of the (usually white) psyche. Have supportive growing conditions where difference is accomodated, celebrated and a prompt for curiosity and learning. Then in 10 years we’ll have the team we’ve allowed to grow, just as this side has been.
As I sit here with the Melbourne rain tumbling down on day 1 of the VMCU junior carnival where all matches have been called off, this is an important read. Our Association is alive and thriving because of the influx of South Asian players. Our young coaches were given free reign to pick their squads, and landed on 80 young players across 6 sides, with a 53% South Asian representation.
That is exactly the percentage of 'non-aussies' for want of a better term, that we have across the 2400 players in our competition. So grassroots is doing a bloody great job at our end of managing the 'diversity' issue, if there is one, without any programmes or policies.
It isn't a non issue. It is an issue alive and well and the subject of much discussion at an Association administration level. But if it is a problem, then that is different. It feels to me like it is only a problem if we call it one.
Were there poor comms from CA- they said in response to Gavaskars complaint that he would have presented without Border had India retained- I wonder if they let him know this or not? That said- it was a poor look just having Border presenting when Sunny is not just a legend of the game but synonymous with BGT tours down under
I was involved in cricket in the 80s and 90s. Cricket was white in QLD, but QLD was white. I did however play with a friend for years who was from PNG.
Coming back to cricket with my kids years later around 2015, the landscape had changed dramatically. My daughter has played with Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Fijian and her BFF in cricket is half Japanese. A surprising number with Indigenous background as well. When I was young the indigenous kids I knew hated cricket! And they are just the ones who have backgrounds I know. It is no longer white in the metro areas. Go rural and it is still but that just reflects who lives there.
It is one of the reasons it has been disappointing to see how much QLD cricket cut from its youth programs - mainly from the girl's side - after Covid.
The changes in QC youth cricket post covid is an article in itself.
I was contacted once by an ABC writer for an article but as far as I know went no further. I guess not a lot of interest in the players at the foot of the pathway system.
Diversity in coaching and talent ID is something to consider as well.
In QLD usually they are over the hill and once played somewhere with someone in the club already.
Some great people about still, my daughter lucky enough to have Terry Oliver & Vic Williams as coaches along the way.
Another terrific article Gideon. My guess is that the growing number of South Asians in Australia is a relatively recent thing in demographic terms and over time, we will see an increase in the number of players with South Asian ethnicity at the first-class level, which ultimately will translate to greater representation in the national team. In grade cricket in Perth, from Premier level to fourth grade, there is a good presence of South Asian players and this is growing. At our club, we have players of Greek, Italian, South African, Anglish, Scottish, Sri Lankan, Indian, Malaysian, Zimbabwean and Irish origin. In terms of ethnicity, this is a wonderfully diverse group, connected and bound by a love of cricket. Diversity in cricket is alive and well and over time, this will likely be increasingly reflected in state and national representative teams.
And Beau looks American, Gideon, with his GI Joe chin ... you can't tell me you haven't seen a Nathan Lyon in an Italian sardine fishing village ... maybe that's why they dropped Mitch; fifth generation Aussie farming stock!
I daresay barely an Australian side has been more diverse and representative than the current squad including an urban and regional perspective with a blend of city and country mice too.
If Sangha performed he could be there by now. Stoinis too and Zampa.
I guess the general point is a reasonable one as I have spent some time thinking about my own time as a fan of almost 50 years and beyond the English and Irish, outside of Len Pascoe, Kepler, Dizzy, Kasper and Benaud as a commentator and former player, I did struggle a bit.
I think the near future will be quite different as is Australia as a whole.
Nicknamed the "Black Prince" because of his tanned skin, Toshack's looks and sense of humor made him a crowd favorite, as did his theatrical appealing, which was more reminiscent of later eras of cricketers.[4] His vocal appealing prompted the journalist and former Australian Test batsman Jack Fingleton to dub him "The Voice", while teammate Sid Barnes called him "The film star" because of his looks.[4] His sense of fun was often on show. While on the 1948 tour, he would often wear a bowler hat, grab a furled umbrella, and place a cigar in his mouth, parodying an Englishman.[2][5][12]
The paywall cuts in before the article shows the episode title or number. Only that it is part of a series. Would it still accessible on SBS or do we need to look elsewhere ? YouTube ?
It is the south Asian community that is keeping some cricket clubs alive in the outer suburbs. Whatever the situation at the elite level it is ludicrous to suggest a lack of diversity exists in grass roots cricket. The sheer number of players with Indian or Sri Lankan heritage and their cultural love of the game will ensure some will progress to the highest levels over time. Women’s cricket too is going ahead in leaps and bounds at club level, reflecting community expectations.
I think it's a great perspective. I only need to look at my own club - in my playing days, it was full of white males. The team lists these days show the transition to a range of backgrounds and ethnicities. You are exactly right, it is happening on the ground in droves and also at the top level without people thinking hard enough about it.
The 'tick a box' approach to looking at a group of people and assessing the diversity, gender split etc is very superficial, predictable and lazy. Your piece is a great counter to that.
You seem to have opened the can, Gideon! Thanks. But can we please keep some of the traditional stuff - sports teams surely should be selected on merit, however difficult that may be. I concur with the commentator chat. Probably none of them remember Mcgilvray…
In the South East Cricket Association in Melbourne where I play there are teams with 11 Indian players each week. This was unheard of only a few years ago. Cricket is more diverse than it’s given credit for although like a lot of sports now young kids seem to have to go to private schools to enjoy good facilities and more opportunity to progress. I’d like to see this addressed. Ethnic diversity is taking care of itself as Australia changes. As for the commentary box, it has evolved enormously. Twenty years ago women were hardly sighted.
What we really need in the summer is diversity in the commentary boxes (including radio and YouTube).
All we get is ex-players or fucking AFL “journos”.
God it’s dull hearing them bang on about some Melbourne crap or make “funny” digs about other commentators’ AFL allegiances/players etc.
But the worst is how they commentate like it’s an AFL game, yelling all the time.
A whole other conversation, Craig!
I would love to see an et al column about commentators, radio and TV, Oz and overseas. We all have our favourites and those we love to hate. A column about cricket writers might be a bridge too far, given you and Pete know many of them personally.
Don't forget that Pete's a commentator too!
He’s on my favourites list (unlike some of his colleagues!)
This made me realise Pete and Gideon probably mates with everyone were talking about below… very different being a fan!
Apologies for the hijack…
You are describing my least favourite TV commentator: James Brayshaw. He’s completely incurious about everything. Kills me that they always pair him with Ponting.
I like Ponting as you learn a lot when he’s on. Though must admit I didn’t listen to him this year as Kayo/Fox better with no ads and better overall team I think.
Brayshaw was one of those in my mind when posting. Embarrassing. One of the main reasons I watch Fox. Can just imagine him salivating over the size of Mitch Marsh as if he’s playing footy. “Oh the Bison, he’s a huge human” etc.
Why is Fox a full 30 secs behind Live Action ?
Yeah, i reckon Ponting is the best on any channel. Brayshaw is equal worst alongside Dirk Nannes on radio. If either of them was a woman people would complain that they only got the job because they were 1) a dyke, 2) a ball-breaking bitch, or 3) slept their way there. Seems that being a good bloke will take you far….
Perfect, you have just named my two least favourite commentators. Brayshaw the bull-horn and Ponting the never-shuts-up. Thank God for the mute when these two are on.
JB and JL. "Punter" should have had a training course with Richie. Too much talking dilutes the better parts.
The whole production is done like it's a footy game now. From the nauseating narrated intros to the yelling.
Matt Nable’s intros…
The one about Australian left arm bowlers was…interesting. It said that Starc was “arguable the best of the lot”.
Alan Davidson averaged 20.5! And was a better bat by all accounts.
Insulting to Test cricket fans.
I can't say I made it through any of them. Just too overdone.
Used to be pre-game and lunch break were worthwhile. Howie has made the lunch break segment unwatchable. Too busy trying to find something to embarrass someone or getting cricketing greats to tell us what they think is overrated. Reminds me of the Footy show.
Don't know Matt Nable but it sounds like his knowledge of the player pool doesn't extend beyond the time he became aware of cricket. No disrespect to Starc.
Alan Davidson …I remember him. (My father inflicted cricket on us from a very young age… watching Sheffield Shield on B & W TV is not a child’s idea of fun ) . However, I digress, AD was a great all rounder.
Agree with you about the Melbourne bias. Collins and Lemon particularly egregious last night on their pod but Whateley et al ever guilty. It’s not only tirese but they bore us to death
Oh that was so bad. I wanted to indulge in heaps of pods last night at the end of an enthralling series but had to turn them off.
Not only was it awash with pro Melbourne/anti Sydney nonsense, I think they’re too busy trying to be cool and funny moreso than talking cricket. That’s why I like Pete and Gideon. Humour is a by-product of the cricket chat.
Being as Melburnian as they come, I'm not sure what it has to do with much in relation to the BGT.
Pete and Gideon are the best. Not only the cricket chat but the various ‘off piste’ meanderings through India and England have been not only entertaining and witty but I also appreciate the literary & musical references. Top of the class imo
Nailed it
TFW Pod is currently sponsored by Visit Victoria, so that pro Melb/anti Syd section was a light hearted riff on that tune. I don't have an allegiance to either city and found it amusing.
But Gideon you don’t ram ‘we’re the best city in the universe ‘down our throats with every breath or word you utter.
True Melburnians don't!
I basically like Geoff and Adam (and Bharat). Yes I could do without the AFL references and sometimes Adam talks (and swears!) too much. Once a political staffer, always a political staffer I suppose. Overall, the various cricket podcasts I listen to have added to my enjoyment of the game, and provided more of that ole diversity. I'm glad to fund them in my small way.
In general I like them too and have listened all series. Adam talks too fast . It’s like he’s on speed or permanantly on fast forward but last night’s diatribe was OTT
Yep I hear you.
I’m not a fan of putting quotas on anything, including things like the South African cricket team or, say, the idea that 50% of CEOs should be women.
It’s much better to ensure everyone has the same opportunities. Usually that means grassroots campaigns.
In business, it means giving people opportunities at lower management levels/training etc and if they rise to CEO then that’s great.
If the grassroots of cricket is already diverse then the only issue is ensuring people selecting rep teams are picking the best players. We all know that doesn’t happen in any sport but mainly through nepotism rather than racism or any other prejudice.
Sorta ducks the class question, doesn't it? Class has always been a huge barrier to participating and thriving in cricket in this and every other cricket-playing country.
Odd little oversight, really. Is there a game more synonymous with the establishment than cricket?
That's a good point, and I think the preoccupation with ethnicity has precluded a necessary conversation about class. But, then, I think that applies in Australia more generally. Class barriers are much higher than we pretend.
As a (proud?) class-reductionist millennial living in the United States (with brown skin might I add)- I have seen the mayhem that myopic identity politics of the last two decades has left behind in its wake in this country. Australia and UK have had this annoying habit of aping the US in the way they see themselves. I have come to believe that most western democracies need more conversations (and action) focused on class.
I really enjoyed your analysis. Focusing on diversity through the narrow lens of race or ethnicity has limited shelf-life when it comes to building a broader coalition of egalitarian solidarity and empathy. This narrow definition of identity politics may bring folks from all walks of life together, but it often devolves into a wild hammer looking for nails. I do think the Australian team can do better in having more south asian representation at the highest levels, but I see that happening in the coming decade or two. It is just a matter of the current generation of desi parents encouraging their kids to take up the sport as a career.
That came out a bit snarkier than need be, sorry. Class is definitely a factor in Australian life that few like to bring up.
Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for the memories. This is one the best test series I can recall, since the days of Clive and Viv. A lot of that is down to this podcast, full of insight, lore and laughs. 👍
Cheers Matt. You're only as good as your material in sports journalism, and this series was great material.
Indeed. I now see young (10-14) cricketers not just changing clubs and leagues to improve their standards but getting extra-curricula coaching which costs a motza.
Very common. I know a young player on the cusp of Qld selection who has had two batting coaches from about 13.
This article reinforced my belief that there are two competing forces that motivate people aspiring for some ideal. The growers and the builders. A builder says it should look like this, so put steps in place it make it look like that. A grower provides conditions for those attributes they want to emerge. I feel this side has been grown. It’s ok to sit back and look at this “garden” of a side and notice things that stand out. The difference in make-up of ethnicities between the test side and a 4th grade metro city game is worth noting. But let’s hold that thought lightly. Let’s not veer to building a test side in response to an univestigated impulse at the back of the (usually white) psyche. Have supportive growing conditions where difference is accomodated, celebrated and a prompt for curiosity and learning. Then in 10 years we’ll have the team we’ve allowed to grow, just as this side has been.
Well put as ever, Gavin.
There is an organic aspect of difference in this team sprouting.
Has already been heartily embraced in the women’s team.
As I sit here with the Melbourne rain tumbling down on day 1 of the VMCU junior carnival where all matches have been called off, this is an important read. Our Association is alive and thriving because of the influx of South Asian players. Our young coaches were given free reign to pick their squads, and landed on 80 young players across 6 sides, with a 53% South Asian representation.
That is exactly the percentage of 'non-aussies' for want of a better term, that we have across the 2400 players in our competition. So grassroots is doing a bloody great job at our end of managing the 'diversity' issue, if there is one, without any programmes or policies.
It isn't a non issue. It is an issue alive and well and the subject of much discussion at an Association administration level. But if it is a problem, then that is different. It feels to me like it is only a problem if we call it one.
Well said, Tim. I couldn't have put it better.
Spot on, Gideon It's a disappointing, if not predictable, response from Mike Baird.
Mind you if they can't even get the presentation of the BGT right ......
I saw that yesterday and couldn't believe it. I'm not surprised Sunny is pissed. So he should be.
Were there poor comms from CA- they said in response to Gavaskars complaint that he would have presented without Border had India retained- I wonder if they let him know this or not? That said- it was a poor look just having Border presenting when Sunny is not just a legend of the game but synonymous with BGT tours down under
But did he not present the previous series trophy alone to Rohit Sharma? I have the photo but unable to upload it here.
I'd rather not let the BCCI set the standards!
I was involved in cricket in the 80s and 90s. Cricket was white in QLD, but QLD was white. I did however play with a friend for years who was from PNG.
Coming back to cricket with my kids years later around 2015, the landscape had changed dramatically. My daughter has played with Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Fijian and her BFF in cricket is half Japanese. A surprising number with Indigenous background as well. When I was young the indigenous kids I knew hated cricket! And they are just the ones who have backgrounds I know. It is no longer white in the metro areas. Go rural and it is still but that just reflects who lives there.
It is one of the reasons it has been disappointing to see how much QLD cricket cut from its youth programs - mainly from the girl's side - after Covid.
So I've heard. QC can always find money for fire jets at Heat games though!
The changes in QC youth cricket post covid is an article in itself.
I was contacted once by an ABC writer for an article but as far as I know went no further. I guess not a lot of interest in the players at the foot of the pathway system.
Diversity in coaching and talent ID is something to consider as well.
In QLD usually they are over the hill and once played somewhere with someone in the club already.
Some great people about still, my daughter lucky enough to have Terry Oliver & Vic Williams as coaches along the way.
That's disturbing. I have heard the same.
Another terrific article Gideon. My guess is that the growing number of South Asians in Australia is a relatively recent thing in demographic terms and over time, we will see an increase in the number of players with South Asian ethnicity at the first-class level, which ultimately will translate to greater representation in the national team. In grade cricket in Perth, from Premier level to fourth grade, there is a good presence of South Asian players and this is growing. At our club, we have players of Greek, Italian, South African, Anglish, Scottish, Sri Lankan, Indian, Malaysian, Zimbabwean and Irish origin. In terms of ethnicity, this is a wonderfully diverse group, connected and bound by a love of cricket. Diversity in cricket is alive and well and over time, this will likely be increasingly reflected in state and national representative teams.
And Beau looks American, Gideon, with his GI Joe chin ... you can't tell me you haven't seen a Nathan Lyon in an Italian sardine fishing village ... maybe that's why they dropped Mitch; fifth generation Aussie farming stock!
Beau Webster even sounds American - like Hilton Cartwright and Jackson Bird. Although Gaz is assuredly from cherry country!
I daresay barely an Australian side has been more diverse and representative than the current squad including an urban and regional perspective with a blend of city and country mice too.
If Sangha performed he could be there by now. Stoinis too and Zampa.
I guess the general point is a reasonable one as I have spent some time thinking about my own time as a fan of almost 50 years and beyond the English and Irish, outside of Len Pascoe, Kepler, Dizzy, Kasper and Benaud as a commentator and former player, I did struggle a bit.
I think the near future will be quite different as is Australia as a whole.
Ernie Toshack had an interesting background: https://www.smh.com.au/culture/tv-and-radio/a-foundation-myth-of-white-australia-is-rewritten-in-a-new-sbs-doco-20211011-p58yy7.html
Wiki didn’t unveil much more about Ernie!
Nicknamed the "Black Prince" because of his tanned skin, Toshack's looks and sense of humor made him a crowd favorite, as did his theatrical appealing, which was more reminiscent of later eras of cricketers.[4] His vocal appealing prompted the journalist and former Australian Test batsman Jack Fingleton to dub him "The Voice", while teammate Sid Barnes called him "The film star" because of his looks.[4] His sense of fun was often on show. While on the 1948 tour, he would often wear a bowler hat, grab a furled umbrella, and place a cigar in his mouth, parodying an Englishman.[2][5][12]
The documentary I mentioned is worth watching - I was interviewed for it.
Will do
The paywall cuts in before the article shows the episode title or number. Only that it is part of a series. Would it still accessible on SBS or do we need to look elsewhere ? YouTube ?
It's this, Leigh: https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/tv-program/our-african-roots/1952984643554
Thanks for that Gideon.
It is the south Asian community that is keeping some cricket clubs alive in the outer suburbs. Whatever the situation at the elite level it is ludicrous to suggest a lack of diversity exists in grass roots cricket. The sheer number of players with Indian or Sri Lankan heritage and their cultural love of the game will ensure some will progress to the highest levels over time. Women’s cricket too is going ahead in leaps and bounds at club level, reflecting community expectations.
I think it's a great perspective. I only need to look at my own club - in my playing days, it was full of white males. The team lists these days show the transition to a range of backgrounds and ethnicities. You are exactly right, it is happening on the ground in droves and also at the top level without people thinking hard enough about it.
The 'tick a box' approach to looking at a group of people and assessing the diversity, gender split etc is very superficial, predictable and lazy. Your piece is a great counter to that.
You seem to have opened the can, Gideon! Thanks. But can we please keep some of the traditional stuff - sports teams surely should be selected on merit, however difficult that may be. I concur with the commentator chat. Probably none of them remember Mcgilvray…
In the South East Cricket Association in Melbourne where I play there are teams with 11 Indian players each week. This was unheard of only a few years ago. Cricket is more diverse than it’s given credit for although like a lot of sports now young kids seem to have to go to private schools to enjoy good facilities and more opportunity to progress. I’d like to see this addressed. Ethnic diversity is taking care of itself as Australia changes. As for the commentary box, it has evolved enormously. Twenty years ago women were hardly sighted.
Unfortunately they remain in short supply in the print media.
Couldn't agree more
Isn’t it about talent, not cultural backgrounds?
Plenty of talent left on the sideline due to different biases, not just a cultural thing
Ever the way.