I have my doubts about India in Australia because of Gambhir as the coach. This new coaching set up seems suited for the white ball format and also Virat not being the captain will hurt India in Australia
I completely agree regarding Broad, and had y arguments here in Australia defending him strenuously. But you misunderstood my comments on bodyline, or shall we call it leg theory? I defended Jardine and will forever. But don’t give me that Craig about sandpaper: bowlers have been showing the state of the ball illegally since time immemorial! All that happened there was that Warner happened to be married to a very glamorous lady with a somewhat salubrious past, and the SA journos found their way to get their revenge for Faf’s prior conviction the previous season (for ball tampering).
The real victim of the whole sandpaper saga was Australia’s beat Shield opener for the past three seasons, plus Davie Warner. S smith was captain: he and Lehmann should have been the only ones penalised.
Sorry. I meant Bancroft was guilty only of doing what his captain asked of him, yet his career has been ruined, and Davie Warner still can’t even captain Sydney Thunder in the Big Bash ffs! Smith was the captain: he should have been held primarily responsible, as should Lehmann, for not noticing what the SA TV crews were found as part of their campaign to torture Warner and his completely blameless wife, the lovely Candice.
I’m not quite as senile as Biden. What a choice for the US President: the megalomanic, racist, sexual predator and conman versus a man sadly but clearly in the determining groups of dementia.
Why do I get the impression that it is not Stokes who holds the grudge but you Pete? Observing the World Champions letting slip a 2-0 lead to leave England with their tail between their legs and a lucky 2-2 scoreline will do that I guess.
But you are right, Stokes discussing a future series prior to a current Test match is not smart, but I wonder, was he quoted out of context? Was he asked about the next Ashes during the WI “presser” (as you journo’s like to call them)? Far be it for me to suggest a bit of selective editing may be going on here but…..
It is worth noting that anyone watching or listening to TV or radio commentary during our summer would know that the topic of conversation ALWAYS comes back to who should be in the Australian side for the next Ashes series, regardless of who they are currently playing. The Ashes does have a disproportionate hold on thinking, often to India’s chagrin whose team always provides a better contest than England on Australian soil, so to ridicule Stokes for referring to it is a little unfair.
And as for Stokes comments in the ECB doco, these appear to be said in a team huddle to his players immediately after the game was washed out. Stokes’ side were storming back from 2 nil down, rain had denied them a series levelling win, the adrenalin from the Bairstowe incident would have still been evident, and they had feral crowds screaming at their backs. Revving up his players for the last test, his emotions would have been sky high; of course they sound over the top now in the cold light of day. Is this what sports reporting has come to, where journalists forensically pick apart and dissect, months later, everything an emotional captain says in the heat of the moment trying to gee up his troops? Fucking hell, Barassi or John Kennedy would be in trouble!
It is always dumb for young players like Harry Brook to say things like he did (Nathan Lyon says them too but he can’t play the age card) but it is undeniable that Bazball captured the cricket world’s attention. You yourself are on the record saying you like it, and when very cricket writer is talking about it, and the team is getting results, then it’s understandable that young players might occasionally get carried away.
And finally, yes Stokes did say “when we had our foot on your (Australian) throats”. Perhaps he doesn’t know that he committed the cardinal sin of stealing a line favoured by Ozzie cricket writers against visiting teams, especially the poms. In the history of sports reporting in Australia, no visiting team has ever - ever - had their foot on Australia’s throat, but plenty of visitors have copped the metaphorical size 12’s crushing their windpipe. You’d get drummed out of the MEAA quick smart if you ever dared to suggest what Stokes did. Maybe, Pete, that is what still sticks in your craw?
I do have a bit of a grudge. It was so petty for them to have snubbed the Australians at the end of the series. (And their sanctimonious outbursts during were hard to stomach. )
Excellent piece Peter, whinging Pom here, but I can understand how the Bazball bubble can appear a bit Jonestown-ish to those not blessed to be within it's fragrant confines. Stokes was hyperbolic but correct about the effect his team have had on English cricket fans - the Joe Root era (and the latter Alistair Cook period) was desperate at times, and Ben and Brendon genuinely reinvigorated a moribund squad, and got more from them than the sum of their parts. I'm sure there are those who drank every drop of the kool-aid and believe them to be the saviours of test cricket and possibly western civilisation, but most of us just revel in seeing guys give it a fucking go for once.
Certainly when England have played in Australia over the past 14 or 15 years the tests have been one sided, but in England the series are always much closer and therefore watchable.
Sorry, I was grumpy and needed to sleep. Fully refreshed, I get your point, as ever, but it's consistently this way isn't it? There's always a bit of Australia in England's head and vice versa. And God knows we need a proper contest in Australia.
The triumphant holders of the Spirit of Cricket ™️ will no doubt show their true (lack of) class yet again. Let’s face it, the WA second XI, which won his year’s shield, s as well as NSW with its test players available, would be a far more daunting opposition than the sort of febrile sterility served up by England on these shores for so many years. I predict Stokes will fail abjectly, Brook will be found wanting in the quicker pitchers, and only Zak Crawley would even have a chance of making either of the state sides. (And probably Victoria as well.)
Let’s turn to the whole hearted Ollie Robinson, who can be guaranteed to wander off with a side strain as soon as a pitch looks remotely batter-friendly. Bowling coach: Ashley Giles, the man whose negative bowling in Adelaide in 06/07 snatched defeat from a position of astonishing dominance through typical English negativity. Yes, they score more quickly now - revolutionary of course (forget Pointing, Chappell(s), Walters, Clarke, Gilchrist, Warner - the list is endless), but their bowling regained talent defensive, negative and lacking in any attacking intent. Thank goodness we have a really exciting Trav to watch this summer, India, not the perennial easy beats, the ever whining execrable and shears disappointing Poms.
I guess when your furiously banging away at your spittle flecked keyboard, bile rising and shit on your liver, typo's will occur. As someone lese likes to say; deep breaths pal.
Fair enough Greg. But the English penchant for self righteousness is really so pathetic. As Compton, Cowdrey and so many others admitted in post career books, England would always arrive in Orstralia declaring that they, as the true bastions of sportsmanship, would of course immediately walk if they nicked one. And they did, on the obvious ones. The little nicks, however, the ones any umpire can struggle to hear (especially from bowlers with a howling gale behind them, where the keeper and slips may hear them clearly, but umpire mid off and mid on hear nothing), those oh so righteous upholders of cricket traditions would lean nonchalantly on their bats, reminding all and sundry that “we walk, dear chaps”.
The only English cricketer I have any real respect for - in Australia anyway- was the openly combative Jardine, who never hid his fierce competitive spirit. Compare him to the much more typical “Plum Warner”, who pretended throughout the bodyline series that there was nothing unusual about Jardine’s tactics.
It is the sickening hypocrisy of the Poms which really disgusts me. That self-entitled righteousness. The Spirit of Cricket is all about accepting the umpires’ decisions, and through the Ashes we saw countless examples of Stokes overtly questioning their judgement. In comparison, the true champion that he is, Pat Cummins, accepted whatever came his way with grace, humility and class. That’s where the spirit of cricket resides these days old chum, not with those turgid self righteous Englishmen, no doubt about to destroy Berlin with their classy behaviour.
As an expat who escaped from Liverpool to Perth more than 50 years ago, I’m regularly ashamed of my birth country - but always tremendously proud when the wonderful Anfield crowd drowns out the National Anthem with more appropriate songs and sounds.
The English penchant for self-righteousness (if it exists) is surely matched by the Australian penchant for whingeing. Last year’s Ashes resulted in a cacophony of Oz whining, from the pitches (perennial complaint whenever we play away), the weather (funny how the sun always came out when the poms were batting and remained cloudy for the ball to swing when Australia batted), the Bairstowe and Lords incident (justified complaints) and then the biggest doozy of all – those dastardly poms switched the ball in the to win the last Test and square the series!
You mention Bodyline, a series Australia is still whingeing about 90 years later. Against the spirit of cricket? Maybe, but it was within the rules and therefore legitimate. England do still see themselves as the true bastions of sportsmanship, but with the sandpaper episode in SA and the underarm ball to their “credit” Australia will never be in a position to wrest the title off them.
Interesting you raise the matter of “nicking ” and not walking. It was Australia that whinged blue murder when Stuart Broad knicked one a few years ago and didn’t walk. The sound and fury was aimed at him because he allegedly snicked it to first slip, but what the scrupulously fair and unbiased Oz cricket fraternity didn’t mention was that he actually knicked to the wicket keeper, Brad Haddin, where it deflected off his thigh (ie dropped it) to 1st slip. Thousands of players have been given Not Out after snicking it to the keeper and not walked –Australia made a virtue out of it (the saintly Gilchrist aside) – but no-one cares because it’s easy for an umpire not to hear a knick or deflection to the keeper. Broad’s sin was he was English and did it in Australia (Brisbane I think).
Like you I am a big fan of Pat Cummins and I think he has made a great impact on the way the Australian team has played and is perceived by the public. For years Australia was “on the nose” with the public and it came to head with the cheating in South Africa. I don’t believe Stokes questioned the umpires judgement any more than Cummins did. They all do it nowadays knowing DRS will decide the issue.
The sickening hypocrisy you speak of is far more evident here than in the old dart.
Great stuff. I wondered how much self-awareness there was in that Stokes tweet. With all the focus on the series between the big three, the move to a two-tier Test system seems almost inevitable.
I have my doubts about India in Australia because of Gambhir as the coach. This new coaching set up seems suited for the white ball format and also Virat not being the captain will hurt India in Australia
They are still a very good playing group.
Typos again sorry. On my phone, on the train.
I completely agree regarding Broad, and had y arguments here in Australia defending him strenuously. But you misunderstood my comments on bodyline, or shall we call it leg theory? I defended Jardine and will forever. But don’t give me that Craig about sandpaper: bowlers have been showing the state of the ball illegally since time immemorial! All that happened there was that Warner happened to be married to a very glamorous lady with a somewhat salubrious past, and the SA journos found their way to get their revenge for Faf’s prior conviction the previous season (for ball tampering).
The real victim of the whole sandpaper saga was Australia’s beat Shield opener for the past three seasons, plus Davie Warner. S smith was captain: he and Lehmann should have been the only ones penalised.
Yep, bowlers have always fiddled with the ball but never with sandpaper. The level of cheating was breathtaking.
You can call it leg theory, i'll call it for what it was: legitimate short fast bowling within the rules at the time.
Your last para reminds me of what Trump said to Joe during the debate: I don't think even he knows what he just said.
Sorry. I meant Bancroft was guilty only of doing what his captain asked of him, yet his career has been ruined, and Davie Warner still can’t even captain Sydney Thunder in the Big Bash ffs! Smith was the captain: he should have been held primarily responsible, as should Lehmann, for not noticing what the SA TV crews were found as part of their campaign to torture Warner and his completely blameless wife, the lovely Candice.
I’m not quite as senile as Biden. What a choice for the US President: the megalomanic, racist, sexual predator and conman versus a man sadly but clearly in the determining groups of dementia.
I’m firmly with the senile one though.
Me too. At last we find agreement!
Why do I get the impression that it is not Stokes who holds the grudge but you Pete? Observing the World Champions letting slip a 2-0 lead to leave England with their tail between their legs and a lucky 2-2 scoreline will do that I guess.
But you are right, Stokes discussing a future series prior to a current Test match is not smart, but I wonder, was he quoted out of context? Was he asked about the next Ashes during the WI “presser” (as you journo’s like to call them)? Far be it for me to suggest a bit of selective editing may be going on here but…..
It is worth noting that anyone watching or listening to TV or radio commentary during our summer would know that the topic of conversation ALWAYS comes back to who should be in the Australian side for the next Ashes series, regardless of who they are currently playing. The Ashes does have a disproportionate hold on thinking, often to India’s chagrin whose team always provides a better contest than England on Australian soil, so to ridicule Stokes for referring to it is a little unfair.
And as for Stokes comments in the ECB doco, these appear to be said in a team huddle to his players immediately after the game was washed out. Stokes’ side were storming back from 2 nil down, rain had denied them a series levelling win, the adrenalin from the Bairstowe incident would have still been evident, and they had feral crowds screaming at their backs. Revving up his players for the last test, his emotions would have been sky high; of course they sound over the top now in the cold light of day. Is this what sports reporting has come to, where journalists forensically pick apart and dissect, months later, everything an emotional captain says in the heat of the moment trying to gee up his troops? Fucking hell, Barassi or John Kennedy would be in trouble!
It is always dumb for young players like Harry Brook to say things like he did (Nathan Lyon says them too but he can’t play the age card) but it is undeniable that Bazball captured the cricket world’s attention. You yourself are on the record saying you like it, and when very cricket writer is talking about it, and the team is getting results, then it’s understandable that young players might occasionally get carried away.
And finally, yes Stokes did say “when we had our foot on your (Australian) throats”. Perhaps he doesn’t know that he committed the cardinal sin of stealing a line favoured by Ozzie cricket writers against visiting teams, especially the poms. In the history of sports reporting in Australia, no visiting team has ever - ever - had their foot on Australia’s throat, but plenty of visitors have copped the metaphorical size 12’s crushing their windpipe. You’d get drummed out of the MEAA quick smart if you ever dared to suggest what Stokes did. Maybe, Pete, that is what still sticks in your craw?
I do have a bit of a grudge. It was so petty for them to have snubbed the Australians at the end of the series. (And their sanctimonious outbursts during were hard to stomach. )
Excellent piece Peter, whinging Pom here, but I can understand how the Bazball bubble can appear a bit Jonestown-ish to those not blessed to be within it's fragrant confines. Stokes was hyperbolic but correct about the effect his team have had on English cricket fans - the Joe Root era (and the latter Alistair Cook period) was desperate at times, and Ben and Brendon genuinely reinvigorated a moribund squad, and got more from them than the sum of their parts. I'm sure there are those who drank every drop of the kool-aid and believe them to be the saviours of test cricket and possibly western civilisation, but most of us just revel in seeing guys give it a fucking go for once.
I love the cricket they play.
As an outsider fan, I don’t find the Ashes interesting anymore. All the test matches are one sided and it’s the Australia who wins all the time.
The only test series im excited about is Aus vs Ind.
Certainly when England have played in Australia over the past 14 or 15 years the tests have been one sided, but in England the series are always much closer and therefore watchable.
Aus v India certainly excite the imagination.
Was Stokes aiming for irony in his comments, or did he just get there by chance.
That first, eleven word, para makes no sense. I'm not sure I can he bothered to read the rest. Those editors used to earn their money.
Apologies Tim, my mistake. Attempting to correct it.
]
Sorry, I was grumpy and needed to sleep. Fully refreshed, I get your point, as ever, but it's consistently this way isn't it? There's always a bit of Australia in England's head and vice versa. And God knows we need a proper contest in Australia.
Thanks. Yeah. Thats why I gave it a headline after that perverse country song.
Overly harsh
Apologies for typos. *this year’s shield, on not in, bowling tensions talentless and defensive, and finally, of course, always disappointing Poms.
The triumphant holders of the Spirit of Cricket ™️ will no doubt show their true (lack of) class yet again. Let’s face it, the WA second XI, which won his year’s shield, s as well as NSW with its test players available, would be a far more daunting opposition than the sort of febrile sterility served up by England on these shores for so many years. I predict Stokes will fail abjectly, Brook will be found wanting in the quicker pitchers, and only Zak Crawley would even have a chance of making either of the state sides. (And probably Victoria as well.)
Let’s turn to the whole hearted Ollie Robinson, who can be guaranteed to wander off with a side strain as soon as a pitch looks remotely batter-friendly. Bowling coach: Ashley Giles, the man whose negative bowling in Adelaide in 06/07 snatched defeat from a position of astonishing dominance through typical English negativity. Yes, they score more quickly now - revolutionary of course (forget Pointing, Chappell(s), Walters, Clarke, Gilchrist, Warner - the list is endless), but their bowling regained talent defensive, negative and lacking in any attacking intent. Thank goodness we have a really exciting Trav to watch this summer, India, not the perennial easy beats, the ever whining execrable and shears disappointing Poms.
Don’t forget Roots never scored a hundred in Australia
Apologies for typos. *this year’s shield, on not in, bowling tensions talentless and defensive, and finally, of course, always disappointing Poms.
I guess when your furiously banging away at your spittle flecked keyboard, bile rising and shit on your liver, typo's will occur. As someone lese likes to say; deep breaths pal.
Fair enough Greg. But the English penchant for self righteousness is really so pathetic. As Compton, Cowdrey and so many others admitted in post career books, England would always arrive in Orstralia declaring that they, as the true bastions of sportsmanship, would of course immediately walk if they nicked one. And they did, on the obvious ones. The little nicks, however, the ones any umpire can struggle to hear (especially from bowlers with a howling gale behind them, where the keeper and slips may hear them clearly, but umpire mid off and mid on hear nothing), those oh so righteous upholders of cricket traditions would lean nonchalantly on their bats, reminding all and sundry that “we walk, dear chaps”.
The only English cricketer I have any real respect for - in Australia anyway- was the openly combative Jardine, who never hid his fierce competitive spirit. Compare him to the much more typical “Plum Warner”, who pretended throughout the bodyline series that there was nothing unusual about Jardine’s tactics.
It is the sickening hypocrisy of the Poms which really disgusts me. That self-entitled righteousness. The Spirit of Cricket is all about accepting the umpires’ decisions, and through the Ashes we saw countless examples of Stokes overtly questioning their judgement. In comparison, the true champion that he is, Pat Cummins, accepted whatever came his way with grace, humility and class. That’s where the spirit of cricket resides these days old chum, not with those turgid self righteous Englishmen, no doubt about to destroy Berlin with their classy behaviour.
As an expat who escaped from Liverpool to Perth more than 50 years ago, I’m regularly ashamed of my birth country - but always tremendously proud when the wonderful Anfield crowd drowns out the National Anthem with more appropriate songs and sounds.
The English penchant for self-righteousness (if it exists) is surely matched by the Australian penchant for whingeing. Last year’s Ashes resulted in a cacophony of Oz whining, from the pitches (perennial complaint whenever we play away), the weather (funny how the sun always came out when the poms were batting and remained cloudy for the ball to swing when Australia batted), the Bairstowe and Lords incident (justified complaints) and then the biggest doozy of all – those dastardly poms switched the ball in the to win the last Test and square the series!
You mention Bodyline, a series Australia is still whingeing about 90 years later. Against the spirit of cricket? Maybe, but it was within the rules and therefore legitimate. England do still see themselves as the true bastions of sportsmanship, but with the sandpaper episode in SA and the underarm ball to their “credit” Australia will never be in a position to wrest the title off them.
Interesting you raise the matter of “nicking ” and not walking. It was Australia that whinged blue murder when Stuart Broad knicked one a few years ago and didn’t walk. The sound and fury was aimed at him because he allegedly snicked it to first slip, but what the scrupulously fair and unbiased Oz cricket fraternity didn’t mention was that he actually knicked to the wicket keeper, Brad Haddin, where it deflected off his thigh (ie dropped it) to 1st slip. Thousands of players have been given Not Out after snicking it to the keeper and not walked –Australia made a virtue out of it (the saintly Gilchrist aside) – but no-one cares because it’s easy for an umpire not to hear a knick or deflection to the keeper. Broad’s sin was he was English and did it in Australia (Brisbane I think).
Like you I am a big fan of Pat Cummins and I think he has made a great impact on the way the Australian team has played and is perceived by the public. For years Australia was “on the nose” with the public and it came to head with the cheating in South Africa. I don’t believe Stokes questioned the umpires judgement any more than Cummins did. They all do it nowadays knowing DRS will decide the issue.
The sickening hypocrisy you speak of is far more evident here than in the old dart.
“England the true bastions of sportsmanship”. Oh come off it! Pat Cummins is a far better exemplar.
Great stuff. I wondered how much self-awareness there was in that Stokes tweet. With all the focus on the series between the big three, the move to a two-tier Test system seems almost inevitable.